Rogue 3.08 PTR Changes

Posted 1 year, 3 months ago at 2:21 pm. 18 comments

Not a lot of changes for Rogues, for better or for worse.

First there’s the change to Fan of Knives: “The cooldown has been removed. In addition, now deals 150% of weapon damage when used while daggers are equipped.” Fan of Knives is without question one of the lamest abilities I’ve seen. First, doing melee damage to all the people in my vincinity for 50 Energy just isn’t worth it. It’s okay coupled with Trick of the Trade. And lastly, the little animation of six little particles emanenating from my Rogue is pathetic. I’ve seen better in game fireworks. It’s just not Level 80 material. We were robbed. The only change this does it allows it to be used twice with Tricks of the Trade before a Rogue is spent.

A few posts ago, I mentioned mapping Feint. At the time, I was completely wrong. I haven’t had to use it once since Wrath. However, as Zaltu discussed in his latest post, Feint is back. The latest change to Feint reads “Feint: Rank 8 now reduces the damage taken from area of effect attacks by 50% for 6 seconds in addition to its existing effects.” This is incredible. Not only is it great now for raids, but also for soloing and PvP.

I’d also like to point out in my sidebar that I’m using Zaltu’s of One Rogue’s Journey Achievement widget. It’s extremely cool and lists off my latest achievements from the Armory.

18 comments

18 Replies

  1. I don’t hate fan of knives as much as you but I do agree we got pretty robbed overall with our level 80 skill. I tend to only use it with tricks of the trade so it doesn’t bother me that it’s pretty much useless otherwise. But maybe it should bother me.

    Glad you like the achievement :). It is, however, Zaltu ;).

  2. OMG. >.< Sorry, Zaltu.

    I’d love to see Fan of Knives be something that does about a thousand or so damage to everyone around us with this incredible burst animation or sweeping blastwave.

  3. I agree with you about the Fan of Knives animation being lackluster – I’ve heard it called “Sprinkler Attack” which I think sums it up pretty nicely.

    However, I think the ability itself is awesome in certain contexts. First of all, it’s *both* of your weapons being thrown, and they both have the normal chances to apply poisons to whatever they hit.

    If you can hit 3 or 4 targets with that its ridiculously efficient damage per energy, and any more than that is just gravy.

    The best use of it I’ve found is in CoT:Strat. You can one-shot the nonelite zombies even on heroic difficulty, but there’s plenty of heroic and raid trash where I use it regularly.

  4. The Fan of Knives animation sucks. That’s all there is to that. I like using it with Cold Blood, makes all the hits a crit, and in conjunction with Focused Attacks, you can get alot of that energy back that you spent to use it. Overall, I don’t think its too bad of an ability, its meant to be used in those places where you pull alot of mobs, like in Magister’s Terrace before the 2nd boss. I’m glad that they are going to remove the cooldown on it.

  5. Cassio Dec 12th 2008 Gravatar

    I agree that it is lackluster when you look at what other classes get. I feel like all of Wrath’s changes to rogues were just one big poke in the side to see if we were dead yet. This change to Fan of Knives seems like more of the same.

  6. Dosequis Dec 15th 2008 Gravatar

    Cassio – I totaly aggree… They can’t fix the bugs, we have with Killing Spree targeting friendly pets STILL, but we get frickin fan of bullshit, increased damage with daggers… Why does blizzard want me to use daggers damnit… I don’t want to..

    Next, I’d love to see ShadowStep, become a ACROSS the entire class, trait, with the Subltey tree getting something like “Improved Shadow Step” … Any mage can blink, it only makes since for a “stealthy rogue” to be able to shadow step…

  7. Nairne Dec 28th 2008 Gravatar

    I am pretty amazed actually that there hasn’t been any need for feint up until now. Pre-BC I remember it being a lot worse for rogues in our raids.

    I’m leveling one up now and I have to say I love it — regardless of Blizzard’s needless changes.

  8. Worcester Dec 30th 2008 Gravatar

    @Dosequis

    No way in hell I want to see Shadowstep as a baseline Rogue skill. And cry me a river about any ability that gives a boost to dagger Rogues. Some of us have been playing and enjoying the Subtlety tree since the beginning. BEFORE any of the “cool” stuff. If you want to do tons of fast white damage, then go Combat or reroll a Warrior!

    The Subtlety tree is all about survivability and utility. It is a “stealthy” tree, which is why Shadowstep belongs there. It’s the most unique tree of the class, but it has it’s drawbacks, and it has a very unique playstyle. If you want to try it out, by all means, respec. But please don’t try to take away one of our most prized abilities.

    I’m sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but come on. You just suggested giving a high end Subtlety talent to all Rogues, in exchange for an “improved” skill, which we all know always suck. It’s insulting.

  9. Dosequis Jan 8th 2009 Gravatar

    @Worcester – who said take away any of your abilitys? I <3 the sub tree. I simply said the talent should be an accross the board talent and I am not saying it should remain as is, a non sub Rogue shouldnt be able to SS as far, as often, as should most likely recieve something like a decrease in haste x10 for 5seconds, after shadowsteping, were as a sub rogue, would get, the maxium distance for shadowstep, the cooldown should be cut shorter, and they should get something like an increase in haste x10 for 5seconds, as well as the the buffs that are already on shadow step. I didn’t mean to leave it as is, and give it to everyone.

    I played all of BC as a SUB rogue, and loved it, I even topped dps charts as a sub rogue, problem is now, is the only real way to compete with any other class spec/class as a sub rogue, is to be using the bugged HAT.

    I actually went mutilate, and enjoy playing it very much, I just like most think, the SUB tree got screwed the most out of the lich king’s updates.

    Oh and the concept of a Rogue, is “stealthy” … No matter the tree, sub,assin,combat – a rogue should be stealthy, just as a mage can “blink”. Next what are you going to say vanish should only be in the sub tree? No, because its “stealthy”… All rogues should be able to ShadowStep.

  10. I don’t think saying that all rogues are stealthy is enough to justify putting a deep sub talent across all trees. You could say that about a lot of abilities. If rogues are so stealthy, shouldn’t they be able to stab something in the back regardless of the weapon they’re using? Why not allow sword/fist combat rogues use mutilate and backstab? It just doesn’t work. Just because a character class is based off of a certain concept does not mean they all should have a certain ability that lines up with that “feel”.

  11. Cassio Jan 9th 2009 Gravatar

    @Nairne

    The lack of need for feint is thanks to the reworked aggro for tanks. They generate it at least doubly as fast as they did in BC (I don’t know about the rest of you but I was still using it then to try and stay off the MT’s threat x_x) so it had to have something else added onto it to justify it still existing in the game. Thats how I see it anyways.

    @Worcester

    Tons of fast white damage wold be closer to daggers and that doesn’t mean it has to be in combat. Just because my OH sword swings at 1.5 or 1.6 doesn’t mean I’m doing more white damage faster when my MH is double the swing timer of your dagger.

  12. Dosequis Jan 13th 2009 Gravatar

    @Cory Using your concept then all mages shouldn’t be able to blink.

    Why can’t you mutilate with swords or fist weapons? Because have you seen the size of them? Mutilate is a like a side arm swing in not a normal attack swing like you see your charcter do when you are auto attacking, or using a sword / fist weapon. Why can’t you use backstab with a sword? Because it doesnt play into “stealthy” Rogue.. Blizzard uses “stealthy” rogue to explain why they did certain things in are class all the time. We should just hold it to them.

    Again though for those that maybe have a hard time reading here I am not saying take the talent as it and give to everyone. Im also propsing that SUB rogues, actually get something more useful out of it… Thinking about it now, the SUB talen should be something like “If you make an attack within x time after shadow stepping, it will give you Pumping Adrenaline, and regen energy 3x fast for x seconds, depending on how many pnts you spec into it. As well as the pnts spec into should adjust the cool down timer.

  13. I’m having some trouble understanding your first paragraph. I think you’re citing the the animation of the mutilate ability as a reason why you cannot use swords/fists to perform the ability. Well, as a dwarf rogue, my mutilate animation is pretty boring; it’s simply a forward thrust with both weapons. If you can’t do that with a sword/fist, your character must have some kind of physical ailment. And as for backstab, I’ll give you not being able to use swords due to their size, but some fist weapons are even smaller than daggers. For example http://www.wowhead.com/?item=25187#. is pretty dang tiny and I would see no problem in stabbing someone in the back with that =).

    The fact of the matter is that each tree needs to be unique and have its own purpose. Although I kind of think the Sub tree is a sort of hodge podge of abilites that are cool but didn’t hit into either of the other trees, as Worcester said, the sub tree is a utility/survivabiltiy tree and it does that well. Shadowstep is a very utilitarian and unique ability and belongs where it is. Even if you gave a gimped version of Shadowstep to all rogues, it would for sure take away from this uniqueness.

    I think what it comes down to is balancing a class, not giving it abilities just because of the character concept. If you let sword/fist rogues use mutilate or backstab, those numbers would be HUGE and we’d be overpowered. If you took away vanish from assassination and combat, people would complain about being gimped and not having enough “oh #$%#” buttons. Same goes for shadowstep. If you gave it to all rogues, mages would have a hissy fit, and everyone else would complain about it being unbalanced in PvP or whatever.

  14. Dosequis Jan 13th 2009 Gravatar

    Arent rogues gimped right now? Tell me why bring a rogue to a raid? It was okay for us when our DPS was at the TOPS of everyone, you brought a rogue to the raid, because of there dps… Now we arent blowing the charts away, and we bring nothing useful to a raid… Virtually every class has a CC now, and our DPS isn’t top numbers, and not that our numbers are bad, because we are contending, but it should be much more for the Rogue, otherewise whats the point of bringing one? Might as well take a feral kitty, at least they have intervate, rebirth, and a battle rez.

  15. Dosequis Jan 13th 2009 Gravatar

    Oh and mages shouldn’t give a crap, because its not like you can use shadowstep to FLEE a target… Unless there happens to be a rat in a few feeet in front of you lol!

    Shadowstep across them all would make a rogue that isnt sub spec’d more viable, at least being able to shadow step to a back enemy and get a sap off that he otherwise wouldnt. Otherwise we bring no utility to the game anymore. We have a misdirect…Which at the rate that the tanks produce threat, is it really needed? Maybe only for those under geared tank runs, or for using the retarded fan of knives… And whats sad is if you wait 2 seconds for your tank to get agro before you do it, you wont rip the agro from him with it.

  16. Dosequis Jan 30th 2009 Gravatar

    GHOST CRAWLER ADMITS IT:

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14697492760&pageNo=2&sid=1#27

    Blizzard owes Rogues more DPS.

  17. Oodles Jan 31st 2009 Gravatar

    “You just suggested giving a high end Subtlety talent to all Rogues, in exchange for an “improved” skill, which we all know always suck. It’s insulting.”

    They did this for the mage Ice Block.

    they did this by giving cat druids – the yiffy version of rogues – feral leap. no one told them they HAD to go bear form and do feral charge just to reduce downtime. and they don’t even need the mobility fix.

    they did this by fixing shadowmeld to essentially be a stationary vanish.

    and Cloak of Shadows used to be the 41pt Subtlety move as well. so what’s your point? baseline ShS would fix our mobility in every spec and back up the whole “let’s make all 3 trees pvp viable” garbage blizzard is smoking. it doesn’t even work when rooted either, so what’re you complaining about?

  18. I think that if it can work with Blade Flurry, it can be a nice ˝AoE˝ damager


Leave a Reply