WotLK Beta Rogue Update: Part Deux

Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago at 1:29 am. 10 comments

Prepare to be critted by a wall of text. =)

Rogue Update (Part 2), posted from the Lich King Rogue Forums by Blizzard employee, Gamnin. 

Hello again,

Here’s a quick update on some additional changes we’ve made over the weekend. Most of these, but not all, will be in the next beta build.

Awesome, I’ve been wondering when we’ll start to see some of these.  BTW, Murder Spree (soon to be renamed Killing Spree) is working and it is pretty awesome.

Cloak of Shadows cooldown changed to 1.5 min.

Boo!  This makes me sad, but probably a lot of casters very happy. As one of our current  defenses, I hate to see this get nerfed.  But wait, read on, there’s more about Cloak of Shadows below in the changes to the talent Elusiveness.

Disarm Trap range increased to 20 yds, cast time reduced to 1 sec, now requires stealth.

Oh!  Oh! Oh!  Does this mean we are going to see some more traps like we did in the first instance of TBC and then never again!?  Although a great skill for the Rogue feel of the class, I never have felt that Blizzard has actually made this skill worth mapping to a button.  Please make this ability automatic or easier to use.

(NEW – Level 75) Tricks of the Trade: The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time. 30 sec cooldown. (Surprise! :) Yes, this is the new group/raid utility ability. We haven’t put any stacking protection on it yet but we’ll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations. Note also that you cannot use this ability on yourself.)

Woot!  I’m glad to hear about the interest in making it so we don’t have to set up rotations, but I’m not holding my breath.

Vigor moved to Tier 3.
Relentless Strikes moved to Subtlety Tier 1, made 5 ranks for 4/8/12/16/20%

So..  wait.  In the last Rogue update, Blizzard said “[Relentless Strikes] is ‘too required’ and will be made more accessible.”?  So the solution is to move it up to Tier 1 and make Rogues spend 5 points on it?  Maybe more accessible, but what’s the deal with making us spend 5 talents for it!?

Murder moved to Tier 6, now increases damage by 2/4%.

Ah.  Thank you, Blizzard.  You’ve allowed me to remove Murder from my talent decision making.  So instead of spending points on Murder to get up to Relentless Strikes, we now get to spend the same points on Relentless Strikes without getting any other benefit along the way?

(NEW – Tier 7) Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy.

Was someone in the Assassination tree complaining about a lack of Energy?  With an already large assortment of Energy talents, Vigor, Relentless Strikes, Quick Recovery and Focused Attacks, is this just intended to be Assassination’s version of Adrenaline Rush?

Focused Attacks and Turn the Tables have swapped locations.

This makes more sense to me as Focused Attacks will then be in the same Tier as Combat Potency, which also involves Energy recovery.

Master Poisoner moved to Tier 9, no longer increases chance to hit with poison attacks, now increases the critical hit chance of all attacks made against any target you have poisoned by 1/2/3% and reduces the duration of all Poison effects applied to you by 17/34/50%. (This does not stack with the Paladin talent Heart of the Crusader.)

Sounds like a definite buff. =)

Hunger for Blood duration increased to 30 seconds.

Duration tripled.  TRIPLED.

Precision now also increases chance to hit with poison attacks by 1/2/3/4/5%.

I can’t see the exact reasoning behind this, but I certainly can’t complain.

Nerves of Steel will now reduce damage taken while stunned or feared by 15/30% rather than reducing duration.

Another talent that Blizzard seems like they aren’t sure what the talent should actually be implemented.

Improved Sprint moved to Tier 4.

I can’t see what big difference this will make.

Blade Twisting now slows movement speed by 70%.

It’s about time!  I might actually add Blade Twisting now as before “dazing” your opponent was never that useful.

Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.

Very nice addition to Mace Specialization, but can someone explain to me how maces are better at penetrating armor than, oh say, swords and daggers?

Throwing Specialization now also has a chance to interrupt target when Fan of Knives is used.

I still don’t see anyone taking Throwing Specialization.  Anyone remember Barbarian’s Throwing Specialization in Diablo II?  Yep, just as useful.

Unfair Advantage: Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon’s damage.

Wow, this sounds cool.  I have a really comical slapfight scene in my head between a Rogue with Unfair Advantage and Evasion and a Warrior with Overpower.  I’m going to put my money on the guy wielding TWO two-handed maces.

Stay of Execution removed, replaced with Blood Poisoning.
(NEW – Tier 9) Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%.

I like the Blood Poisoning, but I fear the PvP players are going to quite upset at the loss of Stay of Execution.

Prey on the Weak now increases critical strike damage of all attacks.
Killing Spree is the new name for Murder Spree and should be working much better very soon.

I like the change from Murder Spree to Killing SpreeMurder Spree just sounded so judgmental.  Prey on the Weak will be nice to see it applied to all attack finally.

Shadowstep will no longer be usable while rooted.

Strange that they would apply such a nerf to the mobility of an ability whose main focus is mobility. 

Elusiveness moved to Tier 3, now reduces cooldown of Cloak of Shadows by 15/30 sec.

Ah, the clever Blizzard tactic of making you pay more talent points to get back the same f!$#ing ability you had in the previous expansion without having to spend any talent points!  Thanks again, Blizzard.  Now I know how Warriors feel.

Premeditation cooldown reduced to 20 sec.
Preparation no longer refreshes the cooldown to Premeditation.
Master of Deception reduced to 3 ranks.
Opportunity reduces to 2 ranks for 10/20%.
Camouflage reduced to 3 ranks for 5/10/15% speed and 2/4/6 sec off the cooldown of Stealth.
Initiative moved to Tier 4, increased to 33/66/100% chance.
Improved Ambush moved to Tier 4, reduced to 2 ranks for 25/50%.
Serrated Blades moved to Tier 3.

Nice to see Subtlety get tidied up a bit.

Wrongfully Accused replaced with Filthy Tricks.
(NEW – Tier 9) Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec.

Tier 9?  Disappointing to have a talent that benefits one of our old raid/group abilities buried so deep into the Subtlety tree.

Slaughter from the Shadows now also reduces the energy cost of your Hemorrhage ability by 1/2/3/4/5.


Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec.

Awesome.  I was curious as to how they were going to work out the stealth/unstealth/stealth/unstealth deal with latencies and everything.  Sounds like a good time to plan a Premeditation, Garrotte, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Ambush, Rupture macro. =)


I never though having a form of Misdirect would make me excited, but Tricks of the Trade does actually sound interesting and fun.  Every talent tree seems to be getting some attention, but I’m not completely happy with a lot of the changes. 

I hope that Blizzard gets a lot of feedback on the changes so they can evaluate them properly.  For my part, I’ll be staying with a mostly Combat build.

If you’re in beta, say hi to Parry if you see me on. =)


10 Replies

  1. Dyera Sep 3rd 2008 Gravatar

    Wow, lots of changes to the talent trees. I don’t like the nerf to shadowstep, as thats one of the times when I use it. like when a mage runs by & sticks me to the ground with frost nova.
    As for disarm traps, you don’t need to click a button with it, mouse over a trap & the cursor changes like when you open a trap. I’ve done that to hunters in WSG when they are guarding the flag. Kind of fun. :)

  2. Yeah, I know you can just mouseover, but in the heat of combat, sometimes it just takes too long. If it were instant cast then we’d start talking. ^_^

  3. David Sep 3rd 2008 Gravatar

    “Murder Spree (soon to be renamed Killing Spree) is working and it is pretty awesome.”

    Come on now, have you actually done the math on this? I’m in beta too but even if you don’t do the math yourself there are plenty of others who have. Murder/Killing Spree is utter garbage and not worth the talent point it takes in its current form:

    “It’s poor spike damage, poor sustained damage, essentially only worth using as an execute once every 2 minutes to get a killing blow in Wintergrasp, assuming you aren’t snared and the target doesn’t move out of melee range”

  4. @David: Hmm.. I guess I was comparing it to before when it did absolutely nothing when used. ^_^ Yeah, reading that post and thinking about it, it doesn’t seem that great. I use it mostly when I’m surrounded by mobs. I’ve also noticed that even when you are using Blade Flurry, the strikes don’t hit an additional mob. Maybe that would be OP, but it’s the way it should work.

    I’m not sure what exactly Blizzard can do to balance it because if they increase the damage too much, we will be able to one shot most targets.

  5. The nerf to shadowstep is ridiculous. From a PVP perspective it’s hard enough to catch mages, shamans, and druids with your CD’s much less try to kill them. Welcome to kiteville…

  6. Andris Sep 4th 2008 Gravatar

    > • Mace Specialization now ignores 3/6/9/12/15% of target’s armor.
    >Very nice addition to Mace Specialization, but can someone explain to me how >maces are better at penetrating armor than, oh say, swords and daggers?

    Try this experiment with an apple and an old cutting board (and a great deal of caution):

    Put the cutting board (armor) over the apple (target).

    1) Get a knife, and try stabbing the cutting board. Be careful not to stab yourself if the cutting board shifts around.
    2) Get a knife, and try slicing along the cutting board, or chopping at it. Again, be careful not to chop or cut yourself trying to hurt the apple.
    3) Get a mallet and hit the cutting board. Be careful not to have the cutting board flip off the apple.

    I think you’ll find that the kinetic energy of the mace is transmitted through the armor much better than the rending or puncturing action of the sword or dagger.

    ergo, maces give you better armor penetration (armor reduces their damage less than it reduces the damage of sharp implements).

  7. I’m looking forward to getting into the WoTLK content when it releases, and it’s great to read about the experiences of people who are already playing it.

    I don’t want to take time away from my live toons to check it out so I appreciate the reads!


    PS: I finally put you on my Blogroll as well! I’ll be updating it soon to split out by class type I think, but for now it’s listed under Newly Listed :)

  8. Vinden Sep 16th 2008 Gravatar

    So if you use Blade Flurry with Tricks of the Trade, will all the targets you hit have your aggro transferred to someone, just like a hunter using multishot with misdirect?

  9. Nice post, except…

    Stop complaining about all the nerfs, and say “about time” to every buff !!!
    Rogues have been soooo overpowered (untill the WOTLK patch), and i assume its not going to that much of a difference after the release of WOTLK.
    Yes i admit that certain classes have been “over-buffed” while rogues have been moderately buffed…
    But thats the way life is, its the same with mages, priests, hunters, warlocks etc.

    And yes, warriors and paladins (and to a certain amount moonkins) got buffed a bit too much imo…
    But face it, their dps wasnt very good previously, and im pretty sure it will be balanced over time!

    Have faith

    PS: Ohh and Andris - Just loooooooove your experiment :D
    you should have added a note, saying - WARNNG: It “can” get a little messy, so you probably would want to do it OUTSIDE ! :D But nice point you got ;-)

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